“your very close association with this investigation, I venture to ask this question—do you, from your knowledge of the investigation find—was there any evidence in 27”
“the bottom of whatever is troubling ■ them. . During the session I made it clear that I was puzzled by their ques tioning during the day since it was apparent that they had not yet absorbed1 the information we had already provided and which we think satisfactorily answers ”
“INVESTIGATION, WHETTOR YOU WERE DEECTLY INVOLVED OR NOT, WHICH MIGHT REQUIRE EXPLANATION? I SO, DESCREIK , NOT, AN- SWER “NO.” No”
“e that the transcriber came without CONFIDENTIAL NW 65924 Docld:32370228 Page 2 21574 : CONFIDEN LAL announcing his intention and that the tapes were not available simply because Gmirkin was not available as no advance arrangements had been made; however, this is speculation. Bla”
“question? 22 Mr. Fithian. I would just like to have you tell me why I 23 shouldn’t believe that you were dispatched here by the KGB, 24 in the light of just the points I am making, in the light of 251 the enormous differences, not in the CIA interrogation under NW 50955 ”
“by case, whatever concerns me, my 13 biography, my work, whatever cases I knew, whatever cases I 24 was involved, all questions were raised by 20, 30 times each 25 case,, when it was reevaluation of all information given by me. HW 50955 1 DocId: 32277209 Page 82 TOP SECR”
“IUP ACUAEI 47 1 professional advice on. 2 I think your questions have been reasonable. I have found 3 no objection to try to meet you more than halfway on it. 4 Mr. Goldsmith. Fine. Thank you very much. 5 (Whereupon, at 3:20 pm., the deposition was concluded.) 6 8 9 ”
“TV and on radio, both in Britain and on the continent. And he has got a book coming out on the 8th. And he has got a book coming out and she feels that essential in your report that you dispose of his allegations or indicate the errors on which he draws his conclusions. She feels”
“and and you want to ask me, don't hesitate to call me. Should I come alone or do you want me to brin g somebody with me? Whatever your pleasure. I see. R: DCI: R: It makes no difference as far as the Commission... DCI: R: DCI: R: I'll tell you what I'll do. I will bring with me t”
“t I'l l do. I will bring with me the man that's been principall y involved in answering any qu estio ns that you've had. I know you've had some. And if something occurs to you why we'll just let you go off the record and ask him if there's something that you don't feel that you c”
“same matter,, and agreed to come to Lautz’s office at 11:00 the next day. As he had done with Irving 'A. Oronsky, Lautz agreed to let me use his office toino : talk to Subject. 2. I went to Lautz’s office at 11:00 on the 28th, but when Subject had not appeared by 11:15, Laut”
“that they were, but I just wanted to be sure from you that you felt so. @ H: DCI: H: DCI: H: DCI: H: We have had the very best support that we could possibly expect from you. Good. Well you can call on us for anything we have. We will feel free to do that I think it is an exceedi”
“a common or usual Agency tactic, and I may have probably said that I never heard of ■ it being done, which I had not, never in my training or previous work in the Agency had I ever heard any references to such, in my recollection at least, such methods. And it is my recollec”
“the record and the exhibit evidence citing the inference that it was not. There 20 >. is an abundance of both, to be frank with you. So that we 4 1 0 F irs t S treet, S.E., Washil 21 can lay them down side by side and make our own separate 22 23 judgment. © Do I u”
“I: R: It makes no difference as far as the Commission... DCI: R: DCI: R: I'll tell you what I'll do. I will bring with me the man that's been principally involved in answering any questions that you've had. I know you've had some. And if something occurs to you why we'll just let”
“Fitzgerald? 24. i! A I simply overheard it, that is right. 25 Q And who were the parties to the conversation you over- NW 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 12 SECRET”
“But at that point you did brief him?m? 24 Mr. Bissell. I don't remember whether I personally 25 TOP SECRET NW 50955 DocId: 32203786 Page 10”
“was not a common or usual Agency tactic and I may have probably said that I never heard of it being done, which I had not, never in my training or previous work in the Agency had I ever heard any references to such, in my recollection at least, such methods. And it is my rec”
“th 18 SECKET Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 A Sure. 2 2 I am sorry we had to take so much of your time. o1 A That is all right. 4 ; Thank you again. 5 ! (Whereupon, at 3:35 o’clock p.m., the taking of the 6 1 11 deposition was concluded.) J 7 11■ 8 9 10 ! 11i 12”
“find a way where we can counteract any such thing beca use that paraded over Europe an d aro und th e world is a terrible thing. Do yo u kno w anything ab out t his so-called Inquirer? 2 DCI: No. NW 65990 Docld:32403740 Ragets either. I tell you how I saw it. My driver bought it.”
“ncipal witness, an d we will call on other s as questioning 15 14 might require, and I would dir ect each of you when you do respond, to identify yourselves, please , f or the record. 16 I think that we will spen d j ust a f ew mor e m inu tes to al low 17 th e members of the Com”
“time? Yes. 06 Did you telephone the GRU about SHUBIN at this time? Yes. - To the best of your knowledge, was ?OPOV compromised because . of the letter Mr. Winters mailed? Yes. 0001016 K 1 1 2/BR”
“through two 22 ! or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. 23■ You referred to some extra-legal activities. 24 A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what 25 we did. I just can't think -- I remember this was on one of NW 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 28”
“them and you fellows say no, we haven't heard anything - you know.) [Well yodtreel in your own mind that this is something that will come about in the very near future, this attempt?] No, I would have to say 1 have a feeling now the attempt will not come about an if enoug”
“allegations and charges with a good deal of finality, there would be quite a feeling that the report itself was a whitewash and that the real facts had not been developed. R: Well, we had in mind to take every poi nt tha t he raised, and Mark Lane and e very other person that's c”
“aboutya meeting 22 to determine what to do, or does it say that on basis of your 13 i evaluation, you told Krupnov to do it? 24: 0s Mr. Nosenko. It's not right. I said only that Krupnov I 09 9*rn59 ugh.o Zorn1 NH 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 49.”
“town, but obviously we furnished no information; that there was some indication from the source that had been helping Grunewald and might be in contact with McInerney. _I told him he was at liberty to Ido so. I told him I would check for the reason why G-2 wanted the inf”
“to the Assistant Attorney General, 22 Criminal Division, who ever it was.\ 23 They said to the, effect, thank you, that is There 24 is nothing we can do. 25 Mr. Wides. Was there any discussion of the possibility HW 50955 DocId:32202415 Page 4 TOP SECRET”
“and -3 his neighbors and associates, and not say anything about periodic, physical surveillance? AYM Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I cannot tell you what I stated. I was OF DorAD NWT 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 25 LUN i”
“between Wishinitiai. [J ( Shackley and Henze? 22 I A Yes. 1 0 i 1 0 6 : lic l, 5 I 23 - Q 1964 to 1966? 24 : A Something like that. 25 (2 Would you describe briefly for me the nature of the } NW 50955 DocId: 32204971 Page 18 SECRET Photocopy from Gerald Ford Librar”
“away on a trip. 22 Mr. Wides. But your understanding was 'it involved 23 personnel? 24 Mr. Sarno. This individual was involved in it. 25 Mr. Wides. And what did you understand had been the HW 50955 DocId: 32202440 Page 43 TOP SECRET”
“tape the conversations? 75 i Mr. Nosenko. Yes, they were taping all conversations. 1 3R1S PAnr-r HW 50955 DocId: 32277209 Page 28 44d”
“ilding, it's the Veteran's Foreign War Building on the fourth floor. It's a white marble building... I'll find it. If you have any questions about anything that occurred to you beforehand and you want to ask me, don't hesitate to call me. Should I come alone or do you want me to ”
“ch 18 SE KEl Phone (Area 202) 544-6000 1 A Sure. 2 : 2 I am sorry we had to take so much of your time. o - A That is all right. Q Thank you again. (Whereupon, at 3:35 o’clock p.m., the taking of the 6 deposition was concluded.) 7 8 , 9 10 11 ! 12 i W ARD a ”
“be instructed to "go to the bathroom for a while and the case officer will have to use this opportunity to drop his cover and go on with his job. He will have in his pocket a reel of tape to counteract Ab emphatic refusal ( which we must anticipate ). f. It may be mentioned ”
“after the man has settled down for two or three days and become composed. We do it in the privacy of our office or wherever he may be, or in his own home or apartment. We interviewed him twice in regard to that angle that we were looking for. We had no indication at this time”
“interrogations, all materials, which concerns 21 this period of time are illegal, and I am not recognizing them 70 Land don't want to see them. And I am asking you not to ask 73 questions based on this interrogations, including trying to .24 play the tape during this inte”
“to give you: 20 that opportunity, would you then get those files, review them, 21 and respond to the request by the Committee that you appear the: 22 first of next week to testify? 23 Mr. Goodwin. If that is your wish, certainly. 24 The Chairman. We are most anxious to ”
“difficulties. have about been resolved and his wife will obtain a divorce 0 in the immediate future. Informant and his wife have reached- an agreement in connection with their divorce. . - • ..- k. Indoctrination Against Disclosure. y* . Informant is most security conscio”
“Phone (A rea 202) 544-6000 TOP SECRET 69 1 such amperson, i ng with a 2 called DOm Mr. Halpern. That I participated? No, sir. 4 Mr. Schwarz. 00-9 g% whanything aboutat ibsing 5 "o 'Bomokok 6 Mr. Halpern. No, sir. I was only in Bangkok, I think, 7 once in my life. ”
“use celebre right down to the present moment are detailed in the narrative. NW 65990 DocId:323744 61 Page SECRET JIPCET ET SY 104-10196-10000 i SECRET 2 3. The attached r eport is not intended to be an answer to the Fensterwald/O'Toole article which Mr. Belin attaches to his memo”
“-2- * I asked if he would be willing to say this under sworn testimony. He said that having gone this far he would, but he cautioned that 15 years had passed and he could not vouch for the exact wording, although his memory of the impact of the meeting is firm. Mr. Johns”
“the Bureau with that infor 00 410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 mation has been providing information over a number of years, O. but no one has made a study of information in hindsight in no B O order to evaluate that source. Do And I could go into m”
“Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty? A Oh, yes. 410 F 25 Q Was anything of that nature done in connection with 1 NW 50955 DocId:32203851 Page 32 MM mem “ye,”
“whether he had put a return address on the package and Whitson replied in the negative. Epstein acked is Whitson had gone to the Winmi FBI Office, whether any Agent had met him at the Miami, airport, and whether Thitson had discussed this matter with anyone, Uhitcon told Eps”
“ng Chalmers usually indulges in. No, it was entirely foreign to his to areas that are normal to him. The thing that I didn't like about it, he rather intimated that this came from some source within the Commission. I didn't read that into it. But you would be more alert to that t”
“way where we can counteract any such thing because that paraded over Europe and around the world is a terrible thing. Do you know anything about this so-called Inquirer? 2 DCI: No. NW 65990 Docld:32403740 Ragets either. I tell you how I saw it. My driver bought it. C 8 DCI: W: DC”
“during the years 1959 to 63 to debrief such individuals. Is 22 that correct? 13 i Mr. Tovar. Insofar as I understand it. My knowledge is‘ 24 i limited to what I see here before me in the paper. During this: 35 n period in question I was not involved, so I didn’t know what”
“on matters of this kind. 22: Mr. Dawson. Who else other than the DDP or DCI would have such authority? iS ite rs O lr 24 Mr. Tweedy. I don't know. 25 TOP SECRET”
“specific individual; and 21!; second, that there should be a decision to move against an 22 individual. 23 Being satisfied that these two things were not happen- 24 ing - - and I am now giving you a reconstruction rather than 25 a precise recollection — I am confident t”